Brie Wolfson travelled to Kevin Kelly’s studio in Pacifica to have a chat about how to have impact in the world and be happy about it. Their conversation explores alternatives to the Silicon Valley mantras of maniacal focus and relentless pursuit, advocating instead for a career full of creativity rather than a linear climb up a ladder. In case you don’t know Kelly, he helped start WELL, one of the first online communities, in the mid-80s and was co-founder of WIRED in the 90s.

I asked Kelly about the tradeoffs of focusing on a single thing if you want to be great... “Greatness is overrated,” he said, and I perked up. “It’s a form of extremism, and it comes with extreme vices that I have no interest in. Steve Jobs was a jerk. Bob Dylan is a jerk.”

As someone who has certainly had an interesting path through life, bouncing around between software, writing books, and photography, I love this permission to work differently. To measure success by internal satisfaction rather than just net worth or employee count. There's value in being a generalist who follows their interests, even if it means abandoning things when they no longer serve you.